I appreciate your concern...and I admire your concern for your customers..way to go...Hi-Tech in not in the business of hurting cars..in fact there are hundreds of thousands of vehicles currently using recycled coolant. When Hi-Tech first looked at the idea of recycling (back in 1989) the first thing was ..Can it be recycled ??..the answer is yes..to qualify that statement..when you go get a brand new gallon of virgin anti-freeze..whats in the jug ??..well sir, there will be between 93.5% and 97% pure ethylene glycol, not more that 3% distilled water, the rest are the inhibitors...taking that a little further...the ethylene glycol does not wear out..it does not lose its heating and cooling properties...it gets filthy (thats what the ARU does for a living..cleanes it up)..you do lose your inhibitors (thats where the fortifier comes in)..but the only way that you loose your freeze and boil points is when you stick a garden hose in the radiator and turn it on..at which time you will need to add pure E.g. to bring the freeze point back down to 34 below zero (OEM spec)..the fortifier locks back in the inhibitor package..and you are ready to go..all of this will be done by the person who contacted you in the first place...we have never had any cracked blocks..never any rusted-out radiators...never any corroded water channels and never any cylinder linings pitted with electrolysis...and that from all the way back in 1989...Frank as long as you are considering having your coolant recycled..the only things that you are going to have get used to is that when you go to use the recycled coolant...do not dilute it ..use it as is..its pre-mixed for you and ready to go..also agitate or stir it up once a week ,or so, to insure proper freeze point protection ..so to answer your question..I would say always use recycled coolant..you come out better and the environment comes out better..if you have any more questions or concerns..feel free to call 1-800-553-0509 and ask for John Randall..thank you for your interest...John Randall....11-26-96
Dear High Tech...
I am working in a recycling company and last month we tried out a vacuum distillation on antifreeze from cars. Unfortunatly the final product had an amoniacal odor and cannot be used again. We think that additives like monoethanolamine an triethanolamine, both used as stabilisers in Europe, decomposed during distillation. The max. temperature during distillation was 130?C and the vacuum was 50 mbar absolute. Do you have more experience on this problem? Please let us know.
My understanding on distillation is that if the temp and pressure are not set perfectly you can get contamination boil over .. check your pH (you need to be between 9.5 and 11) .. as far as odor try d'limonene (a derivitive of citrus orange, lemon & grapefruit peels) it may mask the odor BUT watch for a drop in pH ....if the pH does go down use either sodium hydroxide or pottasium hydroxide to bring the pH back up ....
If you have access to an ARU Antifreeze Recycling Unit with an ARU-2000 Clear-All Finishing Attachment, the odor will be eliminated and won't be an issue.
All of this is assuming that you have a good re-inhibitor
working for you .. because without a good inhibitor you will be way off
base and would be better off disposing of the waste coolant .. we don't
use distillation .. so I'm sorry that I can't be of more help
.. JohnRandall ..
What about Dex-Cool long life Coolant , does it really last longer?, is it good for 100,000 miles?? I've heard that the pH is different ... what can you tell me about it ???..
Carboxylic Acid Salts are the base for long life coolants (Texaco and
GM hold quite a ring of patents around this) .. conventional coolants have
inorganic salts as a base, so the pH of Dex-Cool will naturally be lower. It
spec's out between 8.3 to 8.7 pH . We have also heard that it should be changed every 2 years or 30,000 miles or when the pH gets down around 8.0.. we feel conventional coolant will last just as long as the long-life and we feel that GM could be facing some warrantee problems with the claim that you don't have to change it until you hit 100,000 miles .. time will tell ...
What can you tell me about R.O. (reverse osmosis) and distillation antifreeze recyclers??
Our understanding is that with distillation unless your temperature and pressure is exact you can wind up with contamination boil over .. if you have the right settings it will give you full strenght (not diluted) glycol .. R.O works great !! until the membranes become irreversibly plugged to the point where they will have to be replaced, which from what we hear is very expensive and in turn we feel that R.O is doomed to failure because it is not cost effective. If you take the money issue away, both distillation and R.O. can deliver a beautiful quality recycled antifreeze and are hard to beat for clarity and quality .. we just don't know of anyone who is willing to pay the price for that process ...
Q-5- There seems to be a tremendous outbreak of electrolysis problems eating the heater cores of all brands of vehicles. Doesn't your fortifier prevent electrolysis from happening in the first place?
A-5- Yes .. our electrolysis
package is second to none and this is a very recent problem occuring in
all makes and models of vehicles. The problem is not chemically related,
the problem is that there are too many electrical circuits running through
engines and engines now have high aluminum content. The electrical ouput
of the altenators is many times what the output used to be .. and the altinator
is located right next to the thermostate housing - things happen.
No two vehicles are exactly the same and this may work on one and not another of the same make, model and year of vehicle, but the only remedies that we have heard of, is to double ground the system from the alternator to the block and also run an extra wire from the ground strap to the heater core inlet tube .. this has been know to help most, but not all vehicles that have been affected with this problem.
Q-6- We have a sealed storage vat under our shop full of used antifreeze coolant..... it seems that we have algae growing in it. We are afraid to recycle it as we don't want to infect our heavy equipment with a potential problem, such as algae.
What caused the algae to take hold ? ... Can I just treat it with swimming pool acid the same as I would if algae broke out in a swimming pool ?? .. Can it be recycled once the algae is gone ??
Thanks ... Bob
A-6- Bob ... NO SWIMMING POOL ACID IN A GLYCOL-WATER FORMULA !! ... it will cause poisonious gas no matter how diluted the glycol content is....
A combination of two things caused this:
1)- The antifreeze coolant you are dealing with is very watered down .. in fact it would have to be mostly water for the algae to take hold.
2)- You have an air leak in your storage vat.
To kill the algae - contact your local chemical supply outlet and see which algaecide they would recommend to kill the algae (algaecides are heavily regulated so also be sure and ask if there's any required precautions or permits needed)
I think you need to look about having the contents in the vat disposed of legally. Your fluid will be so watered down that it will be cost prohibitive to try and adjust the freeze point down and when you add the cost and effort of killing the algae you are getting into too much money and effort to bother with trying to recycle it.
If time, effort and money is not an issue ... sure go ahead. and recycle, however ... I would first floc the fluid .. then put it through the ARU + Clearall Finishing Attachment ... then ... adjust freeze point ... re-fortify .. check pH and adjust if needed.
Q-1 - I want to start recycling Dow Aircraft Deicing Fluid # 146 AR" down at our local airport. It's for deicing the windshields and wings of aircraft..I think its a "diethylene Glycol" based formula...can/should I take the recycling job ??
A-1 - NO !!...don't even consider it..the liability issue is intense...every year you hear of a disaster caused by similar topics. There is a whole different agency (F.A.A.) and they will be on you like a cheap suit...stay on the ground or in the the water...but don't go in the air with your recycling service...
Q-2 - I want to start recycling "Dow Therm SR-1"...its being used in a cooling tower..the information I have says that it's approximately 95% ethylene glycol with some dipotassium phosphate and water...can/should I take the recycling job ?? and how do I treat it??
A-2 - Yes !!...take the job...jobs like that are usually "money runs" ...you will have to figure out the logistics though (loop into the system..figure out gallonage...flow rate o f the ARU should be figured low..2 GPM ??...how long to run the fluid so that it passes through the ARU 1 1/2 times...or....do it a barrel at a time??) ARU fortifier works great in "Dow Therm SR-1"...you probably won't have to adjust freeze point or pH because they do not dilute it when in use..proper freeze point is not an issue here (unless somehow they diluted it..at which point add EG full strength or auto antifreeze) proper pH should be between 9.5 and 11.5 (use potassium hydroxide instead of sodium hyd roxide, when possible to bring up pH if the ARU fortifier doesn't bring it up to around 10)
Q-3 - I have a deal cooking to get some pure ethylene glycol cheap..can I use it instead of virgin antifreeze to adjust the freeze point ??
A-3 - Yes...virgin antifreeze is 93.5% to 97% pure ethylene glycol anyway...so go ahead..just make sure that its not contaminated..check pH , freeze point and the overall appearance..and ask questions about what it was originally used for...if you are not sure of "pure"...call in before you make the purchase...
Q-4 - Chlorides ?!!?..I keep hearing about chlorides..are there any chlorides in the ARU fortifier ??
A-4 - Chlorides occur in water - not fortifier, and there are no chlorides in the ARU fortifier. If the antifreeze was diluted with distilled water (as it was supposed to be) there won't be any chlorides. A lot of city water has chlorides in it, but if your pH is between 9 and 11 chlorides won't hurt anything anyway.... a lot of mechanics feel a little chloride helps keep the water channels spic and span .....
Q-5 - What happens if I use too much of Hi-Tech's anti-foam concentrate ??
A-5 - With too much anti-foam concentrate the fluid will get gummy (its the silicone in the formula that causes this)..start out with 2 oz. then work up 1 oz. at a time - some areas never need it - others can't do a job without it.
Q-6 - Whats the difference between high silicate and low silicate antifreeze ?? Who makes it ?? How do I tell the difference ??
A-6 - Low silicate antifreeze has 200 ppm or less, regular (high silicate) has more than 200 ppm. Most of what you run into is low silicate...Prestone and Shell zone both make a high silicate antifreeze (Prestone 1500 ppm??) ..you will usually have to ask for high silicate. There is a machine that tests for silicate content but it costs approx. $200,000.00...a little silicate is good because it works as an inhibitor...too much silicate can cause silica-gel (green go)...ARU fortifier contains no silicate..
Q-7 - Electrolysis ?!!?..I keep hearing about electrolysis...When does it occur ?? What causes it ?? How is it dealt with ??
A-7 - Electrolysis occurs when negative and positive poles
are set up. Mainly due to dissimilar metals in the system. Electrolysis
can occur with as little as 1000 ppm of conductivity. The more solids dissolved
..the more current you have...the higher the conductivity will be..the more
likely electrolysis will occur. ARU fortifier contains nitrite which picks
up free oxygen to prevent oxidation then becomes nitrate which forms a monomolecular
film on metallic surfaces to inhibit electrolysis. Most heavy equipment
will require additional protection..either S.C.A.'s ( Supplementary Coolant
Additives) and/or treated coolant filters regardless of whether you are
running virgin or recycled antifreeze to insure against electrolysis...if
you use demineralized water only, there is little to no chance of electroylsis...
Q-8 - How much fortifier do I have to add to a 55 gallon
barrel to hit spec ?? (9 to 11 pH)
A-8 - You will never have to add more than 32 oz. of ARU Fortifier to a 55 gallon drum to properly inhibit (unless there is severe salt, sodium,
chloride content - then double the amount minimum - the only time this should be an issue, is when you have prior knowledge of such contamination - in which case you had better call in before you tackle that job - we may need a sample 1st.)..
O.K. lets say you added 32 oz. and you can't get above 8.7 on the pH meter (make sure from time to time that you are getting accurate readings from your meter)..
O.K...you know that your pH meter isn't lying to you..what happened in this case is that the acidic nature of that particular batch has so much acid that the fortifier does not have enough acid neutralizer to counteract it..............NaOH (sodium hydroxide) is a very powerful acid neutralizer (don't get any on you) and it doesn't take a whole lot to bring up the pH...keeping in mind that no two batches of antifreeze are exactly the same...start off with 1 to 2 oz....granular or liquid sodium hydroxide can be purchased from a local chemical supply house...whether granual or liquid you must mix it with antifreeze and water 2 to 3 oz at a time..then it must be stirred and re-checked with your pH meter..work up 1 oz. at a time from there..when you hit 9 on your pH meter you are at spec..(but 9.5 to 10.0 is a better mix)..then pick up your money, get referrals from your customer
("Hey Bob, do you know anyone else that wants to stay legal and save money ??")....and go do it again..WARNING !!! never use sodium hydroxide INSTEAD of fortifier..use it WITH your fortifier ONLY as a last resort...(after you have used 32oz of fortifier)...if you do get sodium hydroxide on you it attacks the natural oils in your skin and burns and iches like hell...wash off with soap and water..then go get some skin lotion (Jergens, aloe vera, your wife will probably have something like this) rub it in ..use a lot of it ..and sooner or later it will get better...
Q-9 - Is there any quick-and-inexpensive phosphates field tests. Are there any phosphate-hungry flocs?
A-9 - There is a Phosphate kit available
from Taylor, phone # 800-837-8548 for around $134.00, it's their model #K1103
...we can cook you up some "phosphate-hungry-floc", but it's expensive
around $30.00 per gal. your cost..4 gal per case...and you will have to
use 1/4 gal. per 55 gal. drum...our fortifier contains no phosphates..
Q-10 - I have just been reading some literature on inhibitors used in various glycols. I understand borates and/or phosphates are used as buffers but I don't know what specific protection is offered by other additives such as molybdates or nitrates and nitrites. Does the glycol by itself offer any rust or corrosion protections? What are the standard inhibitors and what do they do?
Q-10 - Nitrites are used as oxygen scavangers (anti-oxidation compounds)that pick up free oxygen to inhibit rust (rust happens when oxygen comes in contact with metal)..once nitrites pick up the free oxygen they then become nitrates...nitrates and molybdates both form a mono-molecular film on the metal surfaces to protect against rust and electrolysis...the yellow metal inhibitors are protected by other chemicals that are almost to long to spell....anyway glycol does not offer any rust or corrosion protections...in fact it's corrosive by nature...which is why you need the fortifier in the first place...we are currently working on other automotive, equipment and cooling tower products...but its too early to alert the media on any of it..we will let the whole world know when its ready...I hope this answers some of your questions...feel free to call 800-553-0509 anytime...
Q-11 - Do we have anything on HD diesel truck formulations yet? How about HVAC gylcol-based systems? Also wanted to get samples of the "cool track strips" and any associated pamphlets.
A-11 - Yes we have developed a heavier duty formula...it has some extra inhibitors in it..but those who use S.C.A's will need to keep doing so..as far as the Heating-Ventilation-Air Conditioning industry the formula that you have is fine...you will have to figure out the logistics (barrell at a time ??...or ...loop into the system??)...if you want some samples of COOL-TRACK STRIPS you will need to contact Environmental Test Systems the phone # is 800-452-0215...
Q-12- What can you tell me about R.O. (reverse osmosis) and distillation
A-12- Our understanding is that with distillation unless your temperature and pressure is exact you can wind up with contamination boil over .. if you have the right settings it will give you full strenght (not diluted) glycol .. R.O works great !! until the membranes become irreversibly plugged to the point where they will have to be replaced, which from what we hear is very expensive and in turn we feel that R.O is doomed to failure because it is not cost effective. If you take the money issue away, both distillation and R.O. can deliver a beautiful quality recycled antifreeze and are hard to beat for clarity and quality .. we just don't know of anyone who is willing to pay the price for that process ...